"For Jews in Germany much has been broken"  [21.12.23]

Alon Bindes is 26 and is studying Business Administration and Economics at the University of Hohenheim. Which he hardly gets a chance to do, as Bindes is also Chairman of the Württemberg Union of Jewish Students. Over coffee with the Online Courier, he talks about fear, courage, anger – and what it currently means to be a Jew in Germany.

When talking to Alon Bindes, the cheerfulness of this young, life-affirming person repeatedly puts in an appearance. But also the tension and pressure that have been weighing on him for weeks. "Jewish people in Germany are focusing on just one topic around the clock. They don't recognize their homeland. And they are afraid," he concludes.


Mr. Bindes, may we begin with a more personal question? How are you doing?

Now that I've had a coffee, not so bad. I'm pretty relaxed myself, but I'm somewhat of an exception. Most Jews are doing anything but well at the moment. October 7 marked a huge rift.

This rift was also the key topic of a speech that you gave on Schlossplatz at the end of October. For all those who missed it: Can you give us a few insights?

The rift with the safety element: Jewish people are afraid to show themselves as such. They don't wear a chain with a Star of David or a kippah.

On the subway, we pay attention to what we look at on our cell phones, such as content about Israel or articles from the Jüdische Allgemeine Zeitung. And when someone calls us there, the first thing we say is: "Hey, I'm on the train right now," so that the caller knows that strangers can hear what we're saying.

All the safety precautions in our social life have been massively stepped up. We no longer announce where events are taking place and do not organize anything without participants having to register.

At the rally, you also read out a very revealing text by a Jewish student from Stuttgart. It contains sentences like: "I'm living my nightmare right now and I'm having to DEFEND myself every day." Or: "I feel like I'm at the end of my tether. And this country is partly the reason for that."

I received this text when we, the Württemberg Union of Jewish Students, called for people to send us accounts of their experiences of the current situation in preparation for a meeting with Minister President Kretschmann. This reply came in after just an hour. I have it here. Should it read it to you?

(pulls out his cell phone and reads. Followed by a short pause. As the text stands on its own and would go beyond the scope of this interview, you can access it here)

What was the situation like before?

The situation was already bad beforehand. But the huge rift is now publicly on display.

It's not at all about what some people think. It is common knowledge that there are people with anti-constitutional thoughts. There are the statistics on this, I don't need to change that. But the fact that people openly shout "gas the Jews" on the street, that they are not afraid to proclaim such demands in front of the camera or that people in Germany dare to publicly wave Al-Qaeda or ISIS flags – I never thought that would be possible one day.

And all hell is breaking loose on social media. All the Jews I know with a public Instagram account have received threats and hate messages.

Another element: "We know where you live". Friends of mine had their house smeared with a Star of David. I wasn't in Stuttgart at the time, but I immediately called my neighbor and asked him to check my apartment. What constitutes a person's last retreat? Their home.

Have you denounced these incidents and hate posts or reported them to the police?

Nobody can keep up with social media. Nobody. But that is also one of our demands on politicians: to fully enforce the existing laws. Because failure to punish people, merely encourages them.

Let's return to the situation of German Jews before October. And also to you and the Württemberg Union of Jewish Students. We found out from a newspaper that such a union exists and that you, the chairman, are studying in our University. For example, you are also listed in the student groups on the University homepage.

That's because we don't have a special Hohenheim group. There are very few Jews here in the region compared to Berlin or Frankfurt, for example. I only know two other Jewish people here in Hohenheim.

Because there are so few of us, the Union is also open to all Jews aged between 18 and 35: pupils, trainees, students, and young professionals. It is important to note that Judaism in Germany covers a very broad spectrum of very different lifestyles. We are a reflection of society.

One part of our Union work involves community building. Most of us are not religious or even orthodox, but we are all Jews. The backgrounds of our members are very different, precisely because there is no one "Jewish" socialization.

Perhaps you could say: It's similar to people from Christian cultures, who don't necessarily all believe in God either, but celebrate their cultural heritage and traditions together, for instance at Christmas.

The Union allows us to network, to celebrate Jewish holidays together, to exchange ideas on different topics, to go on trips together, to have a drink – the things that all young people do. But in this case with a Jewish background.

In everyday life, most Jews have dealings with non-Jewish people in their environment, just like all other non-Jewish people. At our Union meetings, we have the opportunity to discuss common issues. And it is also a safe space.

But your Union is also politically active?

That is our second pillar: the political representation of the interests of young Jews.

As a Union, for example, we have been approached by a number of politicians for interviews: for instance Finance Minister Bayas, Minister President Kretschmann or State Parliament President Mutherem Aras...

who all – just as an aside – studied in Hohenheim...

Interesting.

We are also actively involved in the monitoring committee of the Partnership for Democracy Project of the state capital Stuttgart and in the intercultural dialog with Christian, Turkish and Muslim communities.

What kind of projects are they?

Most Germans don't know much about Jews in Germany. Many have never even met a Jew. In the project Meet a Jew teachers can go on a website to invite Jews to visit school classes in pairs and answer questions. A wide variety of people come: young or old, religious or secular, because we are just as diverse as society as a whole.

With the project Yad be Yad (pronounced: Yat by Yat), a Jew and a Muslim visit a school class in tandem. The title is "Hand-in-Hand" in both Hebrew and Arabic.

Or a completely different example: For Christopher Street Day in Stuttgart, we formed a joint group with the Islamic Federation and the Turkish community.

Sounds like a completely normal life for young people in Germany

In Germany, the topic of Judaism is usually only examined from three angles: Orthodox Jews – just three percent of Jews – the Middle East conflict and the Holocaust. This completely ignores the fact that we have very colorful, diverse Jewish life in Germany. That there are people who are queer or are soccer fans, and who define themselves by that.

And that's the bad thing: What we are currently experiencing is that none of this matters in the end, that being a Jew means you are marginalized and that terrorism is justified.

I have friends who are active in the women's movement, are environmental activists or stand up for LGBTQ rights. There is a silence in all these bubbles that you have never heard before. The whole city was full for Black Lives Matter – and that was the right thing to do. On October 7, Jews were slaughtered – and there are people who relativize terrorism.

For Jews in Germany, a great deal has been broken. We found out that people with whom you have stood up for something, don't stand by you. Trying to come to terms with that is simply overwhelming.

Jewish people are feeling – excuse me – like shit right now. People are suffering from depression. Traffic on the telephone hotline of the counseling center against anti-Semitism "OFEK" has grown by around 800 percent, and instead of thinking about whether to apply for a job at Bosch or Daimler after graduating, Jewish students are asking themselves whether they have a future in this country. But: There is a war in Israel and the situation in other countries is not necessarily any better than in Germany.

We do not wish to relativize any of these experiences. But there have to be positive or at least encouraging experiences as well.

In some cases, we are experiencing great political solidarity. Politicians such as Robert Habeck and Winfried Kretschmann have taken a clear stance. That's what I would like to see from everyone. Also from public institutions. I also thought it was great that the University of Hohenheim immediately expressed its solidarity and was one of the first to do so.

What leaves its mark is when the Stuttgarter Zeitung writes after a pro-Palestine and anti-Israel demonstration in Stuttgart: "There were no major incidents", although anti-constitutional slogans were shouted and a representative of the banned organization Samidoun put in an appearance.

Of course, if you put that in the context of ISIS flags that were displayed in other cities or the fires in Berlin, then that's not such a big deal. But these are anti-Semitic incidents, which should be enough for the police to take action.

The University's speedy expression of solidarity was very important to us. Also, but not only, because the University of Hohenheim cooperates closely with the Hebrew University in Israel. Personal encounters resulted from joint courses and excursions. We have now learned the horrific story of a professor who was in Hohenheim just a few months ago. His family members were murdered on October 7.

In the days following the University statement, there was also criticism of its contents. For example, we spoke for a long time with an exchange student from Israel. Let us quote briefly: "These attacks [of Hamas] were horrible and evil and it is good to stand with Israel. But you should stand with everyone. There are a lot of Arabs here in Hohenheim. People here might have a friend or family there [in Gaza]. If I read this statement as an Arab I would think: what does it mean? You do not stand with me? That I was afraid of the future." - That made us think.

I liked the post because it clearly condemned terrorism immediately after the attack. You don't have to judge two sides.

Unfortunately, it is true that the people in the Gaza Strip are in a bad way. All my Jewish friends think the suffering is terrible. You also have to say that.

However, what we as Jews also experience time and again in Germany are the so-called "three Ds":

• Delegitimization: The final solution is there when all the Jews are dead and Israel no longer exists. Believe me, I could criticize Israeli politics all day long – but not Israel's right to exist and the right of Jews to live.
• Double standards: I see this in people who have never commented on any other conflict, but now vehemently and loudly condemn Israel. I would put a question mark here.
• Demonization: In every era, the Jews are accused of whatever the community of values condemns most harshly. In the Middle Ages, it was the accusation that the Jews had murdered Jesus. In the USSR, Jews were the capitalists. For the Nazis, Jews were the subhumans. For today's right wing, Jews are not "white". Left-wing circles, especially in the USA, deny the Jews connection to the land and decry them as white settler colonialists. We are certainly also responsible for climate change.

It's madness what's happening around the world right now. And the fact that Jewish people are being blamed for this is not acceptable.

What action would you like to see in Germany to tackle the problem?

In the short term, measures are needed to prevent hate and hate speech. There are laws that must be fully enforced.

Educational programs are needed in the longer term. Given the discrimination, racism and anti-Semitism I'm currently hearing about in schools, I'm really glad I'm no longer a pupil.

Of course, this comes from the pupils' parental homes, and teachers don't necessarily have much influence here. Nevertheless, they have a responsibility to react correctly in difficult situations at school. However, we can see that they in terms of their training they are poorly or not at all equipped to deal with this kind of situation.

And we must continue to fund and maintain programs that make encounters possible.

How do you experience the situation at the University of Hohenheim? We only know the very emotional comments under our solidarity post on Instagram. We monitored them closely in order to intervene if criminally relevant statements were made. There were some who came close to this limit. This is another reason why we shut down the comment function after a week.

I'm not on campus much at the moment because I'm approaching graduation and I'm busy with other things. But I do have a suggestion.

With pleasure

There is an internationally recognized definition of anti-Semitism which has also been adopted by the German government. It was developed by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA). It also covers Israel-related anti-Semitism.

It would be an important step if the University and the student representation in committees and Student Parliament were to set this definition as a standard and thus, for example, prevent people or organizations that are anti-Semitic from appearing on campus.

Other forms of discrimination should be considered in the same way.

One last question: We have now been talking for over two hours and will only be able to include a fraction of what has been said in the written interview. You answered all my questions, guided us through painful topics, showed passion and did not spare yourself. Where do you get the emotional strength to do all this?

Jews are dealing with these issues around the clock. Because they affect their lives. I would also much rather do other things and not meet Mr. Kretschmann for that very reason – even if it was an interesting experience.

What gives me strength is seeing how others are doing. And that I can see how that is changing. For example, when Mr. Kretschmann gave his speech on 9 November, or when the budget of the Baden-Württemberg Anti-Semitism Commissioner was increased. Something is happening.

That gives me strength in a way. That people are being encouraged to change things.

Thank you for this interview. We will continue to report on this.

Interview: Florian Klebs / Dr. Dorothea Elsner